(Continued)

But can you really make a serious point about policy on one of those shows?
It depends on what's going on at the time. Leno and Letterman aren't policy oriented. They focus on what's going on [in the news]. I imagine that Leno will ask me tomorrow about the situation between Russia and Georgia. Three weeks ago he would have asked me about the Olympics. And I'm sure he'll ask me about some serious domestic issue. Usually it's 80 percent banter and 20 percent serious discussion. I think that's what the viewing audience wants, because they tune in to be entertained as well as informed. So what usually happens is the host will say, "Okay, I understand last week such and such happened. What's your view of that?" Rather than, "How do you think we're going to solve the health insurance problem in America?"

So let's say Leno asks you about Georgia when you're on tomorrow. What could you say that would help people understand the situation?
A lot of people have never even heard of Georgia, and I understand that. Obviously, they know the U.S. state of Georgia. But they've seen a lot of television, and they've seen a lot of the newspapers and the media about the terrible things that are going on there, and I'll probably try to put it into some kind of context for them. Georgia was one of the earliest Christian nations [and] has been, off and on, part of the Russian empire. It had freedom for a very short time, and then the Bolsheviks came in and took over. After the collapse of the Soviet Union, when Eduard Shevardnadze was the president, Georgia had a very corrupt government. Saakashvili led a peaceful revolution, and now the country's in a very grave situation as far as their territorial integrity is concerned.

And then they'll cut to a Fritos commercial.
Well, all that takes about a minute and a half. And so I'll try to explain the situation from my perspective. I'd focus on the oil pipeline and energy, because Americans are very concerned about our energy crisis related to foreign situations. Both Leno and Letterman are funny guys, but they're also very well informed. I'm sure we'll just joke around in the first segment. In the second section, after the break, we can usually have some serious discussion. That's how it usually works. It's always pleasant to be on those shows, because Leno and Letterman are both very good guys. I like Jon Stewart, too.

You and Stewart have had some serious clashes on The Daily Show.
Oh yeah, but that's the purpose of the show. Hey, I don't disrespect the guy. He feels passionately about issues. A lot of times he covers it up with humor, but you can detect there's an intensity there that suggests he's very concerned about America and its future.

Jon Stewart also represents a lot of people who came to know you during your 2000 candidacy and really liked your individuality and your willingness to go against the party lines. And yet I've heard him and many other people complain that you've changed in recent years, that you've become just another GOP tool.
Certainly, that's the best way for my opponents to attack me. At a speech last week, someone stood up—I found out later he was from the Huffington Post—and he said, you did this and that, and you're not the same guy anymore. I asked him to tell me, how am I not the same? So he brought up tax cuts. I told him, look, I have my own plans for tax cuts and I fought against my own party on that. So, is that a change? No. Then he said, "Well, you used to criticize the Christian right, and now you pander to them." My answer to that is that my life has been characterized by reconciliation and healing, whether it was becoming best friends with the head of the antiwar group Students for a Democratic Society during the Vietnam War or having Jerry Falwell come into my office and say, "I want to put our differences behind us." So if that's a personal failing—reconciling with people who were previously on the other side—sure, I'm guilty. I can handle the attacks, though. I'm a big boy. But I'm the same guy who voted against the energy bill because it had goodies for the oil companies which Senator Obama voted for—the same guy who said you can't have subsidized ethanol. It's easy to say that I'm not the same McCain, but you can't cite a single instance where I've changed my position.

Some people would point to offshore drilling and torture as two issues you've flip-flopped on.
How could I possibly flip-flop on torture? I'm against torture. I said we have to stop it. I said water-boarding is torture. I fought the administration tooth and nail about that. I have no idea how someone could say I'm not against torture.

What about your vote against the legislation that would've limited the CIA interrogation tactics to those outlined in the U.S. Army field manual?
What we said was that they could use some additional techniques, but they still had to be in accordance with the Detainee Treatment Act and the Geneva Conventions. So we still outlawed torture. We allowed a few additional techniques that are not cruel, inhumane, or degrading treatment. We tried to set up a situation where special agencies of our government have some additional techniques at their disposal. Uh, what was the other question?

Flip-flopping on offshore drilling. 
Of course—when gas goes to $4 a gallon. I'm guilty. [But] I don't see offshore drilling as a matter of principle.

Were you surprised when people on the left who were your friends two years ago began launching rather personal attacks?
Political campaigns are a tough business. I understand that. If you start taking offense or say, "Oh, that's unfair," or all that, you head down a slippery slope. Frankly, if I were getting upset ... you just gotta move on. I think most people would not have predicted that Obama and I would be as close in the polls as we are today. My campaign will have a much better shot than a lot of people thought several months ago. So I recognize it's a very tough business, but after this is over, we'll go on with our lives.

This article is from the October/November issue of Radar Magazine. For a risk-free issue, click here

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