In an exclusive interview with Radar, pop maven John McCain sounds off on Jon Stewart, media turncoats, and other stuff

This article is from the October/November issue of Radar Magazine. For a risk-free issue, click here

The 72-year-old GOP nominee for president may not be able to work the Google or use e-mail, but his grasp of popular culture is arguably firmer than that of his much younger rival, Barack Obama.

Last year, for example, on a slow day on the campaign trail, I asked the Original Maverick what movie he'd last seen. "The one about zombies," he said.

"28 Weeks Later?" I asked. "The one about a zombie plague in London that has some not very subtle allusions to Gitmo?"

"Yeah, that one," he said. "I liked the first one, too."

"The one that was sort of about the effects of government-propelled hysteria that happened to come out after 9/11?"

He shrugged. "A lot of those zombie movies are political, you know."

He is a TV buff as well, enthusing over Showtime's Dexter, a program about a serial killer who murders serial killers. Possibly this edginess in his viewing taste is related to the edginess that crops up, on occasion, in his politics. (What's bombing Iran if not extreme?)

After a bit of wrangling, I got John McCain on the phone for a half hour on a Sunday in late August—he was on his way 
to church at the time—to discuss matters both political and pop. Is there anything to be learned about this man—who could soon have his finger on the button—from how he wields the remote control?

Sit back, watch the replay, and decide for yourself.

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I was surprised to learn that Dexter is one of your favorite shows.

I think it's a very good series. I enjoy Dexter; I enjoy The Tudors. You know, I think I'm pretty normal in my tastes.... Lost, I also like Lost. And Prison Break. I think it's a shame when the guys get out of prison. I thought The Wire was an excellent series. I've also heard that John Adams is excellent—that's my next viewing assignment.

Obama likes M*A*S*H. Your taste seems slightly edgier. Do you think that says anything about you or about him?
No, I occasionally see a rerun of M*A*S*H, but I never watched it that much, to be honest with you. Like 
every other living American, I watch reruns of Seinfeld. Everyone has their favorite episodes.

Talk a bit about your affection for Dexter. It's a very disturbing show—lots of blood and rage and frustration.

I think it's an interesting show with lots of black humor. I've enjoyed watching it. But again, I'd rank The Tudors as one of the best shows I've watched recently. Frankly, I usually just read a lot of TV reviews. And I read [the scripts of] some of the programs, because obviously with my schedule and such, I don't get a chance to watch them on a regular basis.

Does it suggest something about your personality that you like the dark humor and the political intrigue of The Tudors?
Well, most of all I think the show has very good acting. I like most of the actors. The Sopranos was also a great show. But it's just good entertainment.

Did you see Hillary Clinton's video parodying The Sopranos?
No, I did not.

Well there's obviously been a lot of pop culture and political overlap this cycle, including your campaign ad with Britney and Paris, and then Paris's response. What did you think of her video, by the way?
It was fine.

You've had a high profile in popular culture for many years, appearing on Saturday Night Live, and you actually hold the record for Daily Show appearances. Is the cross-pollination of pop and politics more pronounced in this election than past ones?
Oh, I think you could trace it all the way back to Johnny Carson. He was probably the first one to do all that. But I think The Colbert Report and The Daily Show are just increased manifestations of it. One reason I like to go on those shows, particularly ones like Leno or Letterman, is that they help you reach a wide viewing audience that otherwise would not be paying attention to the political scene—people who would never be exposed to the Sunday-morning shows or other programs that politicians traditionally are on.

But can you really make a serious point about policy on one of those shows?
It depends on what's going on at the time. Leno and Letterman aren't policy oriented. They focus on what's going on [in the news]. I imagine that Leno will ask me tomorrow about the situation between Russia and Georgia. Three weeks ago he would have asked me about the Olympics. And I'm sure he'll ask me about some serious domestic issue. Usually it's 80 percent banter and 20 percent serious discussion. I think that's what the viewing audience wants, because they tune in to be entertained as well as informed. So what usually happens is the host will say, "Okay, I understand last week such and such happened. What's your view of that?" Rather than, "How do you think we're going to solve the health insurance problem in America?"

So let's say Leno asks you about Georgia when you're on tomorrow. What could you say that would help people understand the situation?
A lot of people have never even heard of Georgia, and I understand that. Obviously, they know the U.S. state of Georgia. But they've seen a lot of television, and they've seen a lot of the newspapers and the media about the terrible things that are going on there, and I'll probably try to put it into some kind of context for them. Georgia was one of the earliest Christian nations [and] has been, off and on, part of the Russian empire. It had freedom for a very short time, and then the Bolsheviks came in and took over. After the collapse of the Soviet Union, when Eduard Shevardnadze was the president, Georgia had a very corrupt government. Saakashvili led a peaceful revolution, and now the country's in a very grave situation as far as their territorial integrity is concerned.

And then they'll cut to a Fritos commercial.
Well, all that takes about a minute and a half. And so I'll try to explain the situation from my perspective. I'd focus on the oil pipeline and energy, because Americans are very concerned about our energy crisis related to foreign situations. Both Leno and Letterman are funny guys, but they're also very well informed. I'm sure we'll just joke around in the first segment. In the second section, after the break, we can usually have some serious discussion. That's how it usually works. It's always pleasant to be on those shows, because Leno and Letterman are both very good guys. I like Jon Stewart, too.

You and Stewart have had some serious clashes on The Daily Show.
Oh yeah, but that's the purpose of the show. Hey, I don't disrespect the guy. He feels passionately about issues. A lot of times he covers it up with humor, but you can detect there's an intensity there that suggests he's very concerned about America and its future.

Jon Stewart also represents a lot of people who came to know you during your 2000 candidacy and really liked your individuality and your willingness to go against the party lines. And yet I've heard him and many other people complain that you've changed in recent years, that you've become just another GOP tool.
Certainly, that's the best way for my opponents to attack me. At a speech last week, someone stood up—I found out later he was from the Huffington Post—and he said, you did this and that, and you're not the same guy anymore. I asked him to tell me, how am I not the same? So he brought up tax cuts. I told him, look, I have my own plans for tax cuts and I fought against my own party on that. So, is that a change? No. Then he said, "Well, you used to criticize the Christian right, and now you pander to them." My answer to that is that my life has been characterized by reconciliation and healing, whether it was becoming best friends with the head of the antiwar group Students for a Democratic Society during the Vietnam War or having Jerry Falwell come into my office and say, "I want to put our differences behind us." So if that's a personal failing—reconciling with people who were previously on the other side—sure, I'm guilty. I can handle the attacks, though. I'm a big boy. But I'm the same guy who voted against the energy bill because it had goodies for the oil companies which Senator Obama voted for—the same guy who said you can't have subsidized ethanol. It's easy to say that I'm not the same McCain, but you can't cite a single instance where I've changed my position.

Some people would point to offshore drilling and torture as two issues you've flip-flopped on.
How could I possibly flip-flop on torture? I'm against torture. I said we have to stop it. I said water-boarding is torture. I fought the administration tooth and nail about that. I have no idea how someone could say I'm not against torture.

What about your vote against the legislation that would've limited the CIA interrogation tactics to those outlined in the U.S. Army field manual?
What we said was that they could use some additional techniques, but they still had to be in accordance with the Detainee Treatment Act and the Geneva Conventions. So we still outlawed torture. We allowed a few additional techniques that are not cruel, inhumane, or degrading treatment. We tried to set up a situation where special agencies of our government have some additional techniques at their disposal. Uh, what was the other question?

Flip-flopping on offshore drilling. 
Of course—when gas goes to $4 a gallon. I'm guilty. [But] I don't see offshore drilling as a matter of principle.

Were you surprised when people on the left who were your friends two years ago began launching rather personal attacks?
Political campaigns are a tough business. I understand that. If you start taking offense or say, "Oh, that's unfair," or all that, you head down a slippery slope. Frankly, if I were getting upset ... you just gotta move on. I think most people would not have predicted that Obama and I would be as close in the polls as we are today. My campaign will have a much better shot than a lot of people thought several months ago. So I recognize it's a very tough business, but after this is over, we'll go on with our lives.

This article is from the October/November issue of Radar Magazine. For a risk-free issue, click here